Posted by Clifford Mee on March 11, 1998 at 09:45:34:
In Reply to: Re: To Live Forever -- Cloning and the Hero posted by Martin Read on March 10, 1998 at 01:50:44:
: : Presently the discussion in the Netherlands on cloning is ongoing as a result of the declined request by the governement for a license to clone cows for production of proteins . That reminded me of one of Vance's best books (IMO): To Live Forever published in 1956.
: : The five? cloned people per Amaranth and the principle arguments used by the hero (Waylock) at the end of the book are very similar compared to arguments in Dutch newspapers. e.g. Is it ethical to make a clone of yourself and to use organs? (answers untill now: NO)
: : Any idea's on this topic?
: : btw Waylock is one of my favorites as a hero. The only mistake he made (IMHO) is that he never followed up on the injection fluid that helped him so much when he worked in the institute for mentally deranged. It is also a less positive aspect of his relation to the friend that helped him (could be the subject of another discussion line about the hero's of Vance)
: : In the same book Vance is very early in describing recreational drugs and emotion influencing substances far before Valium started to be used.
: : Recreational drugs is a topic nowadays as young kids are using extasy in a higher frequency then paracetamol.
: : Other early idea's from Vance that are coming true nowadays?
: : Willem
: I would say that the greatest difference between the potential ability of modern science to clone humans, and Vance's concept in "To Live Forever" is that cloning on its own does not offer a prolongation of life to the individual (except in the sense that spare-parts might enable an otherwise fatal illness to be overcome). A central element in the book is that the Amaranth has the ability to transfer his or her memories, personality and indeed conciousness to a clone. Without this ability the mere existence of a clone would not offer immortality as such. A clone would be merely like having a child except that instead of having half of the genetic make up of a parent it would have the whole.
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I think you miss the point about To Live Forever, Martin.
I think Vance was basically saying identical cloning was impossible and the whole culture in the book was one big lie. The Jacynth Martin which Waylock killed and the one that sort Vengence were 2 different beings because they did not share identical memories.
Also If you were cloned which body is you ? They cannot be identical as they fill different places in space and therefore instantly have different perspectives.
To Live Forever is a suberp thought provoking book with a great yarn. I just love Vance.