Re: On Shant - Federal Government stuff

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: This is a second continuing response to Nick's message. One should probably read the earlier post first--although it probably doesn't make any real difference in the long run. : I want to make it clear that I also like the federal system, and for essentially the reasons that you identify. But I think that a federal system can work properly only when there's a good balance between federal and local power. For example, the ability to move from locale to locale is not necessarily a feature of a federalist system. A weakly federalist system (something like that under the Articles of Confederation) might not prevent local governments from imposing restrictions on movement, either emigration or immigration. The U.S. Constitution, not state constitutions or laws, grants all U.S. citizens the right to travel freely between states and to relocate to states. States frequently impose restrictions on that right (e.g., by prohibiting the receipt of welfare within the first year of residency or by imposing residency requirements on job-seekers). In the absence of a relatively strong central government, isolationist states could prohibit immigration; likewise, states with industries requiring large numbers of low-wage workers could prohibit emigration. One joke about Oregon has it that there was formerly a sign posted on the California border stating "You are now entering Oregon. Try not to make a habit of it." There's a fair amount of antipathy to immigrants in Oregon (especially immigrants from California: "Californicators," as they're sometimes called) and some in Washington state as well. Thus, if Eathre lived in a weakly federalist nation with an Oregon analogue in it, she might find that she could not move to Oregon because of local laws and that no federal laws protected that right. : I also wonder why Eathre should have to get up and move just because a bunch of men were doing something that most of us would agree was quite simply wrong. That's equivalent to saying (a few years ago) to gays and lesbians in Colorado: "Well, yes, our new initiative discriminates against you; but if you don't like it, you can move to San Francisco or Seattle." Doesn't Eathre have a right to continue living in the place of her birth? My reading of "The Anome" suggests that Vance feels much the same way. ( Also, I can't recall anything suggesting that persons were legally prohibited from moving between cantons in Shant.) : The U.S. experience with the Bill of Rights illustrates much of the tension between local and federal power. The Bill of Rights was originally designed as a limit on the power of the federal government. But the Civil War revealed that the states were also in the business of limiting rights that people generally believed to be fundamental. That realization led to the Fourteenth Amendment, which makes the rights in the Bill of Rights generally effective as against state and local governments. : I think that one of the values in a strongly federal system is that we can more easily see the mote in our neighbor's eye than the lumber in ours. People who grow up in oppressive systems (and, hell, they're all oppressive in some fashion) have a blind spot (more or less) regarding the evils in those systems. "Why, our colored folks are happy! They know where they belong, and we all get along just fine!" Or: "We've been cutting trees for decades; we haven't run out of trees yet, and we won't. It's an inexhaustible resource." An outsider's perspective can reveal the wrongs in such systems. : You say that you like the idea of letting "people have the option to live under the laws they prefer." I agree with that in principle, but I'll note that any state governed by laws (and what state isn't?) will have people living in it who oppose one or more of the state's laws. : I'm going on and on again. Oh well. I have to get back to work: writing a brief on behalf of people who really don't like certain laws: laws under which they have been confined indefinitely. Of course, the majority of the state's voters voted for it a few years ago. Who's living under the laws they prefer? : : Hi Dan, : : I just wanted to go off topic for a while, I hope you don't mind. : : One of the aspects of the US that I like is the federal system. Obviously this depends upon its practical reality. : : I like the idea of allowing individual communitities to establish their own laws; at a basic level it can mean that people have the option to live under the laws they prefer. : : If Eathre had lived in the US, she could simply upsticks, (leave this patriachal cult) and move to Seattle etc. : : I prefer that idea to banning the cult. : : I would like to see the US devolve more power to the states, centralised power is evil, even when well-intentioned. To return to the text (at last) of the Anome (end of chapter 1) : : 'Eathre stroked his head. "Yes, dear Mur, I know.You would force men to be kind and good and cause a great disaster. Go to sleep now, the world will be much the same tomorrow."' : : What are you're views on this? Especialy the Federal v's State power stuff. : : Nick

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