Re: To Live Forever -- Cloning and the Hero

Subject:

Comments:
: After reading most of the follow-ups in this thread, I find it interesting that most of you have missed the points that Vance puts forth in the story's solution: : 1) First, be aware that at a certain point in Vance's Amarynth societal structure, participants receive treatment(s) which effectively render them immortal, barring death by accident, murder or execution. : 2) That the Amarynth societal structure is basically 'malthusian', and is immoral. The approach is to assume finite availability of resources, and to impose rules allowing access to a fixed number of slots for immortality (including but not limited to that involving the clone process, which eliminates the possibility of final death by accident, etc). This in turn creates huge stresses on society as most try to find ways to qualify for this fixed number of immortality slots. : 3) After the overthrow of the Amarynths by Waylock & the mass uprising, the solution is to make immortality treatments more generally available to those willing to step outside of the box of "equilibrium", zero-growth paradigm - and emmigrate to unpopulated areas, including other planets & solar systems. I think it's generally portrayed that the additional insurance policy of clones in case of traumatic death is excessive and immoral. : 4) This approach is reflective of the times in which Vance wrote the book, which was a time when Americans were dominated by cultural & technological optimism, as opposed to the current conventional wisdom, which is dominated by the "limits to growth" world-view. I believe this is the larger theme of the book - that it's not possible to maintain zero growth based on a set of enforced rules, and that breakdown occurs if it's attempted. : 5) I happen to love _To Live Forever_, because I still possess that (anachronistic?) world view protrayed in the final pages of the book. : "Grow or Die" .... markA. : ******************************************** : : Presently the discussion in the Netherlands on cloning is ongoing as a result of the declined request by the governement for a license to clone cows for production of proteins . That reminded me of one of Vance's best books (IMO): To Live Forever published in 1956. : : The five? cloned people per Amaranth and the principle arguments used by the hero (Waylock) at the end of the book are very similar compared to arguments in Dutch newspapers. e.g. Is it ethical to make a clone of yourself and to use organs? (answers untill now: NO) : : Any idea's on this topic? : : btw Waylock is one of my favorites as a hero. The only mistake he made (IMHO) is that he never followed up on the injection fluid that helped him so much when he worked in the institute for mentally deranged. It is also a less positive aspect of his relation to the friend that helped him (could be the subject of another discussion line about the hero's of Vance) : : In the same book Vance is very early in describing recreational drugs and emotion influencing substances far before Valium started to be used. : : Recreational drugs is a topic nowadays as young kids are using extasy in a higher frequency then paracetamol. : : Other early idea's from Vance that are coming true nowadays? : : Willem

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL: